Jaime interviews Mark King with Outward Focus. Mark shares his story of what it took for him to see what would be fun if he believed it could be true when he was considering starting a coaching business. Recognizing how his past shaped his future calling as a coach AND the skills he developed to flip the switch on culture in organizations by addressing the fears and motivations behind the behavior. Listen for the books he recommends, what It was like to start his coaching business 30 years ago and the leap of faith required. Mark King has created a coaching company based on the principal commitment that he believes in people before they believe in themselves and longer than the doubters doubt.
Jaime White
This is the Believe Crew Podcast, and the Business IS YOU. Being an entrepreneur, no matter what stage of the journey requires personal growth, to sustain your success and create the ultimate life of abundance. I'm Jamie White, founder of Believe Crew and your host! Join me as I interview coaches, entrepreneurs and authors that inspire us to go where they have gone. Be inspired today to grow, and be the best you. Well, hello and welcome. And today, we have with us Mark King. My experience with Mark was he was actually the first one on one coach that I ever hired. And I didn't know what I was getting myself into. And so it was a great experience right from the beginning. And really, it came from listening to a Patrick Lencioni book, Getting Naked, the business fable Getting Naked. And I remember listening to that thinking, I want to meet someone that thinks like this, and does this kind of work. And then within a year, someone had given me your name. And several sessions later, here we are. So I would love to hear from you Mark, more about you, your business, and how you got into your business. Just lots of questions. So can you start us off with something about you and your business and how you got started?
Mark King
Yeah, so, it's kind of interesting. So I have this, Krista, I, my wife, Krista, and I, we have this little thing where every once in a while, I'll stop and I'll tell her stories. And she loves me to tell stories about us. And so I actually did this a couple of weeks ago. And I was just kind of reflecting on on my career in specific and kind of telling her sharing with Krista all the parts and pieces that God had put together, you know, in my life in our lives. So, so I am gonna go back. So when I was a young man, of about eight, my parents were not churched they did not go to church, they did not go to know God, they did not know Christ. And actually, my father was Roman Catholic at one point, but got mad at them. And so that was the end of that. And so, when I was eight, every once in a while, not all the time, but on Sunday morning, instead of doing what the family did, I would get up, I'd get dressed, and I'd go try to find a family in the neighborhood that wanted to go to church. And I go to church with them. Okay. And my parents thought this was kind of crazy. Why would anybody want to go to church, right? So, um, you know, that continued. And then I met my best friend. And we lived on the same block together for a number of years. He moved away, Jim, he moved away. And we reconnected our freshman year of high school. And he happened to be going to a Baptist church in Lombard Illinois at the time, and he invited me. And so I went, Well, I mean, it was like, holy cow. I've got to be here. And so, you know, from my family's perspective, here, I am starting out my freshman year of high school. And now I'm going to church Wednesday night, Friday night, Saturday, morning, Sunday, Sunday morning, Sunday. And they're like, What are you doing? You know, and I think they expected the more traditional type things in here. I was going to church. So my freshman year. I remember I was in a Sunday school class. And I, Phil Miller was his name. And he brought me to Christ right in front of a group of my peers. And I accepted Christ. And I can remember just feeling so excited. And I couldn't wait to get home until my parents I had accepted Christ. And so I burst in the door and I said, Mom, Dad, you'll never believe it. The greatest thing in the world has happened to me, I accepted Christ as my Savior. You should do it too. And they proceeded to decide that I had become a member of a cult. And I was at that point banned from going back to church. So, here I am a baby Christian. I just accepted Christ and my parents. Right. You have to honor your mother and your father banned me from going back to church.
Jaime White
Wow.
Mark King
So you know, that was really hard. But the what was really interesting is that the separation from my parents started really clearly at that spot, and I don't tell many people this, but from the age of 11 My mom was a very fearful woman, I used to come home, and she would want to talk about the things she was struggling with in her life. And, and this was every day after school. For years, I did this, okay. And this is when I learned about when people are so fearful, and they're so committed to protecting their fear that that protection of their fear is greater than their desire to progress. And that's where I fully began to understand I didn't know at the time, but I began to understand the resister mentality, you know, it was really because my mom just couldn't, couldn't get out of the loop. So I did that for probably did that for six or seven years. Now, I had other things going on. I mean, I was working, you know, 25 hours a week, I was participating in sports, so I can't say did it every night. But usually, if I came home from school, that was usually the first conversation and we just spent, you know, a couple hours at it every time it happened. So, you know, in hindsight, that was preparation, God was preparing me for something. Then I went off to college started going back to church, my lovely wife, Kristen, which was great. And I actually began to met her family, my mother in law, my father in law, and I started to my father in law. Here I was, you know, he and I couldn't have been more different. I grew up outside of Chicago, never been on a farm, you know, didn't know that life at all. And he was a pastor, he was also a missionary. His hobby was farming, you know, all this kind of stuff. So really, we didn't have anything in common. But he, he, the thing that my father in law did for me more than anything else is he believed in me before I believed in myself, and he taught me that leadership trait. And what it really because there was no reason for him to believe he didn't have to, he didn't have to, he could just treated me like a potential son in law at some point. But he didn't do that. He kind of took me under his wing. And he was I don't know, I tell the story all the time. But I don't know if anybody else has this. But you know, he kind of do. I'm sure you had it. Jamie, you do the first thing with your mother in law. Right. And Kevin did the first thing with his father in law. And you know, and I think, you know, what would it typically be while you like, go to a ballgame, or might go fishing or something like that? So I was, I was visiting for the weekend, at their home in Wilmont. And I got there Friday night, and my father in law goes, or my future father in law at the time. He says, Hey, would you mind helping me on the farm? I said, Sure. I said, now, it's the middle of January. So you know, I'm wondering, what does it mean help you on the farm in the middle of January? And he said, he said, Yeah, we just got some stuff to do. I said, what time you want to leave tomorrow morning. He said, six, you know, and I'm like, six o'clock, and I came here for the rest. Not that. But anyway, you got up at six got in the car. We headed to the farm. And we get there about nine o'clock in the morning. And it's like, like, it's the middle of January. It's windy. I think the it was 16 degrees and the windchill was zero. So we're going out into the barn. It's zero degrees. I won't go into the all the gory details. But the first thing I ever did with my father in law was slaughter a cow.
Jaime White
Oh, my word. Right in. Right in.
Mark King
Right. And he threw me right into the middle of it. You know, and, and so we spent the entire day, you know, preparing this cow for the butcher. And like I say, I won't get into the gory details. But at the end of the day, we look like serial killers. I mean, we recovered from head to toe, and we're driving back from Central Wisconsin back to Walmart. And he's got this here at the time. He had this old Plymouth Aspen stationwagon, right. And we're driving down the road. And we're just at where 494 or 43 Sorry, 43 and national Avenue meet on the west side of town. I'm sorry, that is 494. Anyway, we right go right by the exit and all of a sudden we run out of gas. Okay. Now it's at this point at 930 on a Saturday night, it's dark out. And we start walking down, you know the highway to go back to the exit to get to a gas station. And I'll never forget we walked into the I think it was at the time of super America and the guy I've never forget the face on the guy walked into. Because like I said, we're wearing coveralls. And we're from, you know, covered and head to toe with, you know, tallow and blood and just look. And the guy was reluctant to sell some gas, but we got some gas got back into the car, were able to make it home
Jaime White
He didn't want to be part of the getaway.
Mark King
Oh, man. Yes, he was. He was he was truly scared that we walked into his gas station that night. But anyway, so you know, the thing about my father in law is he invited me into his world. And he believed in me before I believed in myself. And then lo and behold, I was a radio guy. I loved radio, I grew up during the rock wars in Chicago, and with a radio station, three radio stations back then that just some fabulous entertaining and I just wanted to be part of that world. So I started to work on improving my voice I wanted to, because I my voice wasn't very good back then. This was late in high school. And, you know, it's kind of marble mouth. And I didn't speak all that clearly. And so I took some time to really work on my diction and how I pronounce and being able to speak from your diaphragm and all that kind of stuff. So I got into radio, and I had, I would say I had a good career, I was on the air for a while. And then the station I was working for at the time, didn't really they no longer liked my style. And so they put me on overnights and overnights for about six months just about killed me. And this was a suburban Chicago radio station. So, you know, it wasn't the big time or anything like that. And I went to a this the resource, a general manager at Chicago radio station, and I told them about you know, here's, here's what I've done. What I'd like to do his own radio stations, what should I do next to my career. And he said, Mark, I think you need to get into sales. And I was like, Ah, man sales, I don't want to be a sales guy. I never liked anything about sales. I never was attracted by the sales profession. But he said, you know, if you're going to own a radio station, you need to know how this place makes money. And so you need to get into sales. So I went back to my boss. And so David only ever known me as a guy who wore jeans and T shirts, because that's all we ever wore. Alright, nobody saw us. Right? Right, either have a face for TV or a face for radio. And so I went to Dave. And I came into him and I said, after my shift, they said, Hey, Dave, I want to get into sales. And he goes, Mark, I've never seen you in a suit. And I said, Okay, stay here. So I went home, I put on my only suit. And I came back and I said, Okay, here you go. This is what I look like in a suit. He says, Okay, you're a sales guy. You start two weeks from Monday. So that's how I got my first because like, I came back and showed Dave what I look like in a suit, you know?So I got into sales. Now, I will say this today, I look back. And I think sales is one of the greatest professions on the planet. If you're, if you're truly a great salesperson, and you treat it with the honor and professionalism it deserves. It is a great career and it's great way to help other people but so many people treated poorly. And when I first started I love talking about radio, and how radio could benefit somebody. But I really hated the rejection. You know, my expressive, likes to be liked and lack of approval. I can remember after a week of calls now our sales manager back then he was a good guy, but he's a tough guy. He expected us to go down five to six, personal face to face appointments a day. Plus make 30 Contact calls a day. But when it got to Friday afternoon, I could hardly stand it anymore. I can remember pulling off the road And just, you know, sitting back for three hours because I rejection was so high. And really the reason I went through that in hindsight now is that I really think God was teaching me two things. One is you have to make a choice about whether or not you're going to get into your fears or not. And whether or not you're gonna let that stop you. And then the second thing is he really taught me through that experience, how to communicate more effectively with people, you know, when you're doing them five to six appointments a day. And you're dealing with so many different people, you learn really quick, how to adapt your, you know, your communication to serve them all. So, you know, that was those were some of the main major milestones that God allowed me to walk. And then in 1989, October of 1989, Christa I was the I was the top dog at the radio station I was working for. We thought we were living the the American dream, you know. And Krista was pregnant, because we had chosen that Christa would be a stay at home mom. She's a mom through and through. So she wanted to stay at home. We had three kids at home under nine. And lo and behold, she's pregnant with our fourth. And the baby is due at the was it was due at the end of November, this is the end of October. And Crystal realized that she came home from a trip we had the doctor said we could send her away before, you know, a few weeks before the baby came. And she realized somebody changed something was wrong. So we went to the doctor and went to the hospital actually here. And she's in, she's in with the resident and we're doing the ultrasound. And the resident says, I'm sorry, there's no heartbeat. And so here we are, about one month away from having another baby in the house. And Dirk is his name Dirk had passed away because of cord accident. His cord got too long. And he passed through it and created a knot. And as he grew, you know, it just killed him, took his life. So, wow, boom, you know, here we are. relatively young couple, three kids at home, under nine and we are in shock. We had never been through anything like this before. And we've gotten a piece of advice that first day the grief counselor at the hospital came to us and said, Okay, things like this, usually do one of two things. The or they either drive couples together, or drive them apart. Or, and or they drive them to God or drive them away from God. Choose wisely. And and I'm so thankful that we were given that advice because we chose to come together and chose to you know, see, what was God? What was God wanting to do in this? Well, anyway, I call my boss. And I said, Hey, I'm gonna be out for about five days. There's just some things that I have to take care care of here with my family in the hospital and everything else. And on top of it, my sister in law, and brother in law, we're getting married that weekend. So this is all going on at the same time. And so I told him, I'm gonna be out of pocket for a while. So the next day, the next morning, I get up and I realized I just two things I have to take care of, at the office, I'm sure everybody's experienced this, if you're working at any time, something like this comes up and all of a sudden, if you don't deal with these two things, it's going to be a big problem. So I race back to the office, and it took me 10 minutes to take care of this stuff. And I'm leaving quickly to go back to the hospital. And my boss stops me in the hallway. Now, as I said, this was the biggest challenge we had ever been through as a couple. And we just had, you know, from our from our perspective, a child die, you know, and my boss stops me in the hall as I'm leaving and remember, I'm a top salesperson in the company. He goes, Hey, Mark, I know you got a lot going on. But when are you going to get back to normal? And that was really not the right question for him to ask. And I didn't answer him. But as I walked out the door and got on the elevator I remember thinking to myself, I'm never getting back to normal.
Jaime White
Right? Right.
Mark King
So that was really the catalyzing event for what's next. So anything you want to share or ask about. So that's, that brought me to the point where I knew I needed to make a change.
Jaime White
Yeah, well, there were a couple of things that came up that I know, you've shared with me over the years. And I just wanted to kind of touch on a little bit. You mentioned about transcending our parents when we've been coaching together before. And so I heard you basically say that there was that moment early on for you where you recognized, my parents may not have my best interests at heart. And so I wouldn't mind if you would speak a little bit to that. But I really love where you've taken us so far in the journey. And so I don't want to distract from that, before we get into, you know, how you really got into coaching in the business of coaching. But just taking a moment to kind of highlight and touch on the importance of that, that you've seen over the years.
Mark King
Yeah, that was a real hard one. And, you know, and I've talked to others since then, and they, you know, basically, their conclusion was, so technically, you were abandoned. You know, now I didn't I, you know, I think my parents loved me cared for me and the way they could, you know, they were fearful people. And, you know, ultimately, even if you try to do the right thing for others, if you do it for self serving reasons, it doesn't work, it doesn't count. And so, you know, what really happened is that when that split occurred, when they took something that I felt was so precious, and basically set it aside, you know, that separation occurred, then now we're in a different space. And I think, you know, the things we've talked about as relates to this, Jamie is that you, we tend to look up to our parents, right. And we tend to see them as a very influential and leader like in our life. And when you connect with a leader, any leader, you know, at some level, I think, everybody has an expectation that the leader is going to have my best interests at heart. Okay. And what I realized is because of my you know, my parents fear is they really couldn't do that for me. So over the course of time, it turned into selfishness, you know, they were being selfish. And again, I, you know, I get so they responsible, but I do I understand why, but for years, I was mad at them, you know, and and I thought, wait a second, how can you not believe in me? How can you not support me in this, and what happened when this and that this ties together to this story? is ultimately, my parents, they struggled with this for us. But really, what it was more of is that they struggled with the grief of it for themselves.
Jaime White
Are you referring to that moment when you lost the baby that now you're bringing us forward? And there was
Mark King
Bringin this to them? Yeah.
Jaime White
they were around then. And they found out about this, and they had their own grief about it. And that got in the way of them being able to have your best interests at heart again.
Mark King
Yeah. And what I realized the connection to between the two, so from 15 to 34, I was really mad at them. Because I wanted to, for them to support me and my family. As I thought good parents would, right. But then I realized when this happened when we lost the baby, and I saw their reaction to it, and that they were more consumed in their grief than they were concerned with our grief. Right? What I realized in that moment, and you know, people may disagree with this thought process. But when I realized that moment, as I transcended my parents, and I realized that, you know, that it was very disappointing on the one hand, but on the other hand, it was liberating as well, is because I no longer was angry with them. I was actually more empathetic for them, right? What's that?
Jaime White
Able to have compassion.
Mark King
Yeah, yeah, my compassion went up. And that is a recommendation I make for people today is that when you see somebody's fear, turn up your compassion as much as you can. And that was the lesson I needed. I was, you know, again, some people disagree with this, but I was, I was hoping for expecting for support. And in that moment they were unable to give it. And it was at that moment, I realized that I had transcended. And I think that's one of the hard lessons in leadership is that when you look up to somebody, and you want them to be there for you, and you want them to continue to show the way, and it's like, you know, if they show the way, then that gives me hope that I can, yeah, you know, but then that all went away. And I think it's a very in many cases, it's a very sad and disappointing time,
Jaime White
This touches on something that I've been communicating more, you know, as I start to even have awareness of it, I feel like, often, parents want to do what's best for their kids, and they just want so much for their kids. And they're willing to spend money, they're willing to invest in them time resources, and then not realizing that often what the kids want is to see their parents living that so that they believe it's possible. And that's something that is sort of flipping the switch on the thought process. Like, are your kids looking for you to invest in them? Or are they looking for you to invest in yourself?
Mark King
Yeah, I mean, I think we want what do we want our parents to do to show the way, right, and the so the, the kind of the rest of the story with my parents, where this was really revealed is that we got pregnant again. Okay. And we lost the child, again, wasn't that eight months, it was at more like five months, stillbirth. And, of course, what do you do you call your parents and tell them what's happened? And, and this was the response from my mom, I'll never forget it on the phone call. I said, Mom, you know, we were kind of waiting to tell everybody but Crystal was pregnant. And we miscarried. We lost that child. And I remember her saying, she says, Oh, she said, Oh, Mark, she said, How could you do this to me?
Jaime White
What?
Mark King
Yeah, how could you do this to me? And it was because the losing losing Dirk had caused so much grief and pain that she struggled with how we could even entertain the thought of getting pregnant again. So that's when I realized it wasn't about us anymore. It wasn't about me. It was about her. And she didn't want to go through that grief, or mourn like that again. And you know, and I think that's to your point, Jamie, I think that's part of the responsibility we have as parents, I mean, you know, and it really goes back to what my father in law did for me, is our role as parents is to believe in our children before they believe in themselves. And then they may draw a very different circle in life than we do. Right. But and they may go through some very significant challenges. In the end, their life is their choice, right? I mean, our role as parents changes, as they get older, right? We don't tell them what to do. We try to do or do the best to help them live the life they want to live. And, and so this is about being willing to go through the challenges, they're going to have their challenges they're going to face. And you can't always predict what that's going to be. But, you know, we stand firm in those moments.
Jaime White
So you shared I think with me the bike story.
Mark King
Oh, with Heather?
Jaime White
Who believes in you? I thought this came from you, but maybe it wasn't like thinking about someone teaching you how to ride a bike. You don't always know. They didn't know. You don't know how to ride the bike. But then someone holds it and just says ride. I believe in you.
Mark King
Go, yeah, that's exactly right. Yes. And I think it's, in those moments we have to be and we're gonna we're gonna walk alongside, especially from a leadership or a coaching perspective. You know, that's really what the work is. It's, you know, I hear of these coaches today who are trying to tell people well, this is what you do, and everything will work out. I'm there really see that work? You know, and I think this is about coming alongside of the other people. And, you know, being able to believe in them before they believe in themselves, and offer also suffer the grief as they suffer grief and celebrate joy as they celebrate joy. I mean, it's it's not removing the challenges they face, but it's believing them through the challenges they face. And so yeah, I mean, I think that's really more the work. And the fact is, just to wrap up this piece about transcendence is my parents could no longer do that for me, because it was too painful for them.
Jaime White
Yeah. So then can you take us back to the early days of when you decided the radio station is no longer for you? And what was?
Mark King
So yeah, so out of this experience, I lost all my, all my passion for radio went away. And now I look back and radio today is really just a fraction of what it was back then. But I lost all passion. So I really started to asking God, what do you what am I here for God? What do you want me to do? You know, and that? And that question, my boss asked me, you know, when are you gonna get back to normal really was seared into my thought process. So I started, I started looking, I started to go on a journey to try to find what I was supposed to do in life. And one of the first things I did is, man did my reading. chunk up a notch. You know, I started reading four books a week, I knew that I had to change how I was thinking about things. So along with studying the Bible, you know, I started just reading a lot.
Jaime White
How did you pick? How did you pick what books that you were reading? And where do you find them?
Mark King
Yeah,I mean, some of them were just recommendations from other people I trusted, you know, some of it was just my own research. Book, you know, books that really helped me. So one of the first books I ever read, when I was on this path, path was the greatest salesman in the world by Augmentee. Know, okay. And it's really not a selling per se. But it's about, you know, he really talked about how you have to really work on your mind, you know, and how you think about yourself and how you think about others. You know, so often today, you hear of people that are struggling with serving others. And it's because they think they have to be somebody else in order to do that. And that's not true. You know, God created each person for a purpose, has given each of us gifts and talents to fulfill our purpose, and weren't prepared in advance to do so the one thing I really work with people today is, Hey, be who you were created to be, you know, that's okay, that's good. And that a lot of that has to do with the disc. But then be able to adapt yourself to the situation you're in and do the right thing for others, regardless of how it makes you feel. You know, so often, people don't want to confront others. But you know, we need to be able to tell each other the truth in love. Right? And the two go hand in hand, you can't do one without the other. Truth without love is mean. Love Without truth is mush. So you just you can't do that you have to do both. And I think that that was one of the first things I learned is that you have to accept who you are, you know, God put you here for a reason. Don't deny that. Now, the great book I read was that's in this early in the early days was Victor Frankel's Man's Search for Meaning. Okay, great book. And he just talked about how, you know, the fascinating story about survivors in the Nazi concentration camps. You know, it wasn't the ones that were treated better. It was the ones that had purpose, you know, and they made it about serving others in the camp with them to more so, for some reason, remember em Scott Peck wrote the book, The Road Less Traveled?
Jaime White
Yes. He also wrote
Mark King
People of the lie, and I don't know I was intrigued about reading People of the line. I read people of the lie boy did it. Wow. knock me off my feet. And that is when I learned why the depth of fear is It's such a such a, such a bad thing, because it makes us do evil, you know, taken to an extreme, it makes us do evil. And, and that's where, you know, really selfishness. He helped me understand really what selfishness is all about. And then the last one, the one that kind of kicked me over, was inside out. Oh man who's who wrote that book, Dr. David. I can't remember right now, I want to say Dr. David Chapman, I don't think that's right. But it's inside out. And that book really taught me that I am not here for myself. You know, I am here for other people, that this is about service to others. Right, the great commandment Love the Lord your God with all your mind, your soul and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. It's those two things, we don't have to really worry about the rest. And so, you know, those were really foundational books that helped me, you know, re solidify and mature my thinking about this. So I'm reading all this. And then I stayed at the station, another nine months, which was miserable, then I went to work for a training company, really loved that company love the facilitator, we had the owner of the company. And I really believe that what we did, and what the company was about was teaching people new skill sets, to make a difference in their workplaces. But the problem was, is that we weren't really dealing with changing their motivation. Okay. We're dealing with giving them new skill sets, but not good reasons why to use them. And so the promises we made with clients never really took place. And that's when I realized that it was the motivation behind the behavior that we had to pay attention to not just the behavior. So I stayed with them for about a year. And then I left, I needed a job. And I went back into radio. And it was a smaller station, I hated it. And it wasn't making a lot of money. And so it's late 1991. And I go to the our senior pastor at a church and he and he had he and I had known each other for a little while couple of years. And I said, Pastor Bill, I need some counsel, I said, Here's my story. So I laid out the story. I've got this job, I'm working at a radio station right now I can do it. But I've lost all passion for it. I really hate it. And it's not enough money. You know, Chris is a stay at home mom. And we've got three kids under nine. And I need to take care of the family. And I said I've got another job like it, but it's a guaranteed income. I could really use it. But again, it's just more of the same. And then I said, Anna, now I've got this wild, crazy haired idea to start my own business, but I don't have any training and education, background history. Nothing. I got nothing. And he looked at me and you know, and I'm really you know, I'm serious. I'm somber, I'm really looking for answers. He goes, Mark, what would be fun? And I looked at him and I said, What would be fun? I said, Pastor Bill, I'm not talking about having fun. I'm like I was incredulous. I couldn't believe he asked me that question. And he goes, I don't know. I think God wants you to if. So, I said, Well, it would be I guess it would be fun to start my own thing. But But I told him I got nothing. And he said, Well, you know, I think you got a decision to make.
Mark King
So I took that to heart. I went home prayed about it with Krista. We talked about it. And I gotta tell you to this day. So Krista also exemplifies what it means to believe in others before they believe in themselves, because she did that for me. And either the next day or the day later, I quit my job.
Jaime White
Wow.
Mark King
And now I didn't have anything. Okay. I didn't have any client. I had an idea, but I didn't have any clients, you know, and I had a card table and a chair and a telephone. And I didn't have a typewriter. So I had to go to the public library locally. And I wrote up a one sheet I still have a copy of it today. And it was for concepts that I thought I could teach in companies just to move in this direction. So I went to five businesses that I knew of. And I needed $2,500 in January of 92. To, to make it if I didn't have that it was going to be really bad. And so I went to five businesses out of the five, three said yes. And they agreed to pay me in advance. And it was $2,700. And so on January 4 1992, and Brookfield, Illinois, I stood in front of my, you know, first company team and started talking about these concepts. And that was 30 years ago.
Jaime White
That is so amazing. I know that you've encouraged us in a similar way to believe in ourselves before we you believe in us before we believe in ourselves.
Mark King
How could I not, Jamie, after that story, right.
Jaime White
And then, you know, encouraging, being really encouraging about it's what would be fun. And, Mark, sometimes when you have six kids like we do that sounds like a crazy question.
Mark King
Right? It sounds like a crazy question, doesn't it? Yeah, it really does. But it really is the right question. And, you know, when I, when I started, I really didn't know what I was doing. You know, I mean, and the people that the companies that hired me, I think they hired me purely on enthusiasm, you know. But as I start, you know, what I really believed, starting the business is that if you make this about helping others succeed first, you don't make it about your own back pocket or money. If you make it about helping others succeed first, then you'll succeed. And it was really, really went back to First Corinthians 13. Right. If you do anything without love, it doesn't mean anything. Right. It's a claiming symbol or a bell and, and so, you know, I really started to refine and do the work from that perspective. You know, and you've heard, I think, a lot of my stuff, right? And I have some stuff today, right? I didn't have much stuff back then. But I have stuff today. And it's all central around that theme. And back when I started, I really believed it would make a difference. But after 30 years of doing this, you know, I know it makes a difference. And I've had the I count what I do a tremendous privilege. Because I get a chance to do what I was created for every single day. And I've had an opportunity to work with some tremendous people in some tremendous companies. And we've done some unbelievable work. And I got it, I've actually had people come back to me. And we've gone through some really, I mean, I've gone through some really difficult stuff. I'll just tell a quick couple of quick stories here. So I remember I was working for this printing company. And the company wasn't doing well. And they were still, you know, investing in me. And so, a buddy of mine went in, I was working with I've worked with him for about 12 months. And he went in and he audited their books. And he came back out, he was a CPA, he came back out and he said, What are you doing? And I said, What do you mean? I said, What are you doing these people? So while I'm helping them, I said, Mark, they can't afford this. You know, and I tried to explain to him, I said, I understand this, but they're making an investment. And they have to make this investment not only me, I mean, I gotta get paid. And that's not the most important thing, but they need to make this investment for themselves. They need to believe that they can navigate these waters. Well, he was mad at me, you know, and it really impacted negatively our friendship. But after 18 months, right, we turned it around, started turn it around, and we work together for the next three and a half years.
Jaime White
I like what you're saying there Mark just thinking about that even giving space for that 18 months and that three and a half years because sometimes the question is how long did it take us to get into this mess? You know, even personally when we want to do this work personally. It takes some time because it You didn't create this mess overnight.
Mark King
No You know, and changing your thinking at a company level can be very, very difficult. And this was a family owned business. So that puts English in everything you know. But the next three and a half years, they had the best growth, largest profits, best reputation they've ever had. And, and so everything they invested in all the struggle they went through, was taken care of in spades. On the other side of the equation, you know, and I've, I've got story after story of companies that went from where the majority of people in the organization were self serving, to where the majority of the people in the organization served others. And it was some of the hardest, most challenging, but most exciting and successful work some of these people have ever been a part of, and I've had a number of people in my career, come back and tell me, after, you know, the hard thing for me is when we, when we take so much time to rebuild an organization from the inside out. You know, the story worked with this third party administrator. And so I'll never forget, I met the president and the second in command, and we're having lunch and they said, We want to want to see if you can help us. I said, okay, and they said, were fractured. And they proceeded to tell me that the team had come together young, and they thought they were a team. But then fourth quarter hit, you know, and in third party administration, that's when the crunch hits. And, you know, the reason why teams break down is, in many reasons, because of unmet expectations. People think you're going to do something you haven't really told them, they think you're going to do something, but you they don't do it, you don't do it, then you've let them down. Right. So the team fractured right in half. So we started working together. And again, 18 months, it took 18 months, you know, to get it all back to a great foundation. And this is where, you know, people are in it to help each other succeed. Teamwork is at a max, productivity is sky high. They're growing, they're growing like crazy. Profitability is, you know, off the Richter scale, and all of a sudden, the silent partner decides that. So this is the message. I can't believe that to this day, I can't believe this. He comes in he goes, I have to get involved. And we said, Why isn't this working out for you? Isn't this going well? He said, Yeah, but this is becoming too big a part of my portfolio. Okay. Well, okay, but it's working. Why? You know, so Oh, low and behold, he gets involved. And what does he do? He demotes, the president fires me and invest in a god awful amount of money and software that they didn't need. Okay, over the next two years, totally dismantled, what we have to what we built, right. This is and then I had a number of people in that organization come back to me and say, that was one of the greatest experiences of my life is being able to build something like that. The rest of the story is he dismantled it turns around and sells it six. So this is two years and six months after we hit our peak, right? And culture, everything else. What happens, fistfight breaks out on the floor of the company that acquired them. That's how far it fell. You know, and that's the thing, if you if you make this about money, if you make this about something other than helping others succeed, it's not going to turn out well. You can Yeah, you can make money. There's no doubt about that. But you'll never have the complete success that you can have. When you make it about helping others succeed first, and you commit yourself to doing right by others. And like I say, I've been a part of some tremendous stories that I count dear to myself. And so that, you know, when we talk about coaching today, and what it means to be a coach. Like I say, I am honored and privileged to be able to do this every day and I I've paid a dear price to get to this spot. You know, your husband and I were talking about and he was telling me about a company that does coaching certification, and I think we've talked about it And I said, Really there's a certification program for coaches? And he goes, Yeah. And I said, Well, what do they say? Well, they say you have to go through this, you know, either go through this curriculum, or you have to create a curriculum or and then you can get be certified. As a coach. I said, Cool. Do I, you know, can I be grandfathered in or something? Do I have to do something? And well, according to this, you have to do something. I said, I asked him, I said, so. Kevin, how long has this company been around? He said, 27 years? I said, I guess I'm good. I've been around 30. So. So that's, I got my certification.
Jaime White
That's awesome. How, if you if you know, do you know, how many coaching sessions like how many does that add up to what? Like, you know, they want hours of service?
Mark King
Hours of Service? I tried to figure this out once? And I'm probably, I don't know. So 30 years, I have probably averaged at least 15 meetings a week. Okay, so that's 750 meetings a year, on average? You know, times 30 years. That's 2122 23,000.
Jaime White
That's amazing. Hours of coaching, whether it's group or individual,and how many social? How many social media ads did you do? None. The, the new coaches coming into the scene today are being told, you know, create a course do social media ads. And that's not at all what your experience has been,
Mark King
it wasn't my bet. I'm sure that some of that works, you know, I'm sure you could, you know, that's a path you and, and maybe it's a more efficient path, but that wasn't my path, you know, and, and I really learned early on. So I believe that in order to serve others, right, and we're teaching others to pay their price to be successful, right, that that's what you're actively involved in right now. And so people have to pay their price to be successful. Well, what that means in my world, you know, and again, I'm maybe I did it too long, too slow, I don't know. But is that I've paid the price to be successful. You know, I've driven the miles, I remember, I had a client, Minneapolis, and I would get up at three o'clock in the morning and drive to Minneapolis for a nine o'clock meeting. I remember, had to be with a team. Long ago, a corporate team, and the only time they can meet was three o'clock in the morning. So I'd meet them at three o'clock in the morning. I mean, I've, I've met whenever people have needed it, I've done some very, I would tell you very challenging, taking very challenging, difficult situations. So you know, if you if you approach this job, if you approach the job of coaching, that makes it about serving other people, then it's not going to fit easily into a box. So one more story. So this was a tough one. This is early on, this is 1992. So it's my first there's my within my first six months. And I'm doing one on ones at this accounting firm. And I always do one on ones with the group I'm going to work with because I want to look at life through their eyes and be able to understand where they're coming from. And I sit, I'm sitting across from this young woman, she's just recently joined the firm. And you know, I'm just, hey, hey, how you doing? Nice to meet you. I'd love to hear your story. What would you like to share about yourself? And she doesn't answer. And I wait, I wait just a little bit. Give her some time. I'm sorry. Is there anything holding you back? I mean, what would you like to tell me? I'd like to learn more about you. That's what I'm here for. And all of a sudden, she starts to break down a little bit. And, you know, again, I don't know what's going on at all. But again, my trying to make sure I'm compassionate and empathetic, is there anything I can help you with? What's what's going on? And she proceeds to tell me that two weeks earlier, she had been raped. And she hadn't told anybody else. I was the first person she had told me Wow. And I said, Wow, I am so sorry to hear that. I would you know we have resources. Let's get, let's get people involved. So, you know, the person who brought me in, I went out and got her, I brought her in. And we proceeded to get this young woman, you know, the help she needed, you know, as much as humanly possible. So when that first happened, I, you know, I kind of asked her, you know, it'll God, why that why, you know, because I felt ill equipped to respond appropriately to this young woman. But it happened on my watch. And I think that's, that's what coaching is really about. From what I can tell, and from my experience, is that is, we're supposed to be here for other people. We're supposed to believe in them before they believe in themselves. We're supposed to help them succeed. And in helping them succeed, we succeed. And, you know, one thing I tell people all the time is that, you know, do not give undue power or influence to those who cannot, or will not have your best interest at heart. And, you know, my commitment, as a coach in the life of my clients and the people I work with, is that I will believe in you before you believe in yourself. And I will believe longer than the doubters doubt. And that's how I built my success after 30.
Jaime White
Mark, I really appreciate you telling that story and sharing all the other stories along the way. This is huge for just awareness in the coaching industry in general, because there are a lot there's a lot of noise. And I would love for this message to be shared to help others on their journey.
Mark King
Well, and I and you know, I believe in you, before you believe in yourself. And I'm really glad Jamie that you're on the front end of this. We need more good coaches out in the world. There's far more work than any one person could possibly do. And so I'm excited to be a part of your journey.
Jaime White
Oh, that's awesome. Thank you so much.